down by the lake, where the rutabagas grow... : comments [Battles with Integrity]

I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter where you do your undergrad, as long as they're teaching what you want to learn. In some ways, doing your undergrad at a big school is a disadvantage, as you get lost in the shuffle, taking courses or sections taught by TAs (many of whom, sadly, are less than English-proficient), seeing the professor only with opera glasses in a giant hall with 500 other clueless undergrads.

Of course, in my major, from sophomore year on every class was me and the same six other guys, but that's a different story :-)

And, as somebody who went to Cal, and got a BA and went through the teaching program at a UC (go Anteaters!), I can testify that it really doesn't matter too much. Everything (OK, 90%) they teach you in teacher training is a bunch of BS anyway, taught by academics and failed teachers who were in the classroom only long enough to get themselves into a doctoral program. Most of what you need to be a good teacher you're going to learn in student teaching and from your mentors at your first job (if your lucky), and from floundering in the classroom for a few years.

[parent entry] [link] [reply]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on several points. Since he will be a junior transfer, he will be missing out on most if not all of the 500 person lower-division lectures. Most of his upper-division classes will be taught by professors, and likely be fairly small (20ish people). As for where you go as an undergrad, it certainly does matter if you want to apply to graduate school beyond a basic teaching program. PhD and Masters programs (something B. has pondered if I am not mistaken) look at not only how you did in school but where you went. As I'm sure you know, a straight B student from a Cal State is not viewed the same as a straight B student from Cal.

As for your transfer chances, I would agree that you need to talk to speak with a rep from Cal. I would also suggest speaking with a rep from the re-entry program at UC Berkeley. They have some great programs and advice for older adults heading back to school. Oh and yeah you might want to re-take the psych class. If you re-take a class at a CC do they count the original grade in your GPA? I know it will still count on your transcript, but at some schools like Cal they only count the second grade toward calculating GPA. Good luck B.

[link] [parent] [reply]

Well, if you have to disagree with me, I urge you to find some other hobbies - perhaps bonsai. ;-)

I'll concede that most of his upper-division classes will be small, as you say. Whether or not the quality of instruction in such classes will differ signifcantly between, say, SFSU, Cal State, or UC is debatable.

As for getting into grad school (and merciful gods, don't get into an Education graduate program, or I'll have to disown you), I think it depends on what grad school you're applying to. You can get an MA or PhD from SFSU and Cal State, more cheaply, and they'll do you just as well getting or advancing in a high school teaching job (which is where I'm assuming you're aiming) as a fancy UC degree.

[link] [parent] [reply]

Were I to go for an Ed.D I'm sure I could handle your disapproval. I doubt I'm going to go that route, as school administration is not something I'd want. Being a school superintendent seems to me too much like being a hotel manager, only the problem guests a) don't go away, and b) have mean parents. I'm still aiming at teaching HS, or perhaps JC, but I want to keep my options open, in case it turns out that teaching isn't my gig. Then having an undergrad paper from Cal probably won't hurt me, unless I want to take grad school there.

[link] [parent] [reply]

As for where you go as an undergrad, it certainly does matter if you want to apply to graduate school beyond a basic teaching program. PhD and Masters programs (something B. has pondered if I am not mistaken) look at not only how you did in school but where you went.

150% correct, go to the head of the class. :-)

In an interesting twist, this also matters within the UC system itself. It is incredibly difficult, for example, to go from undergrad to grad programs, particularly at the "name recognition" schools like Cal or UCLA. Reason? because they *know* that the undergrads went to 500-person classes, and thus did not receive the attention that undergrads from smaller universities did, thus (probably) not as good an education overall.

However, if you want to go to a name-recognition grad school outside UC, the name on your degree will be infinitely more valuable. Sorry, but it's the truth.

And incidentally, even in upper-division, i can count the number of classes I had that were under 100 students on one hand. ()*$%)(* Cal. $#(%* English major.

[link] [parent] [reply]

Good to know. Thanks for the info. :D

[link] [parent] [reply]

I intend to meet with a transfer representative from Cal on 9/5 while s/he is visiting Laney. I'm going to look into taking that Psych class over, simply so that I can knock it over when they look at my old transcript.

O that I were not a such dumbass in the early nineties! Of course we were all stupid at nineteen, I just didn't have anyone around to blunt my stupidity and let me know at the time that there was a point to all of it. Not that I believe anyone could have gotten much inside that thick 19-yr-old skull. :D

[link] [parent] [reply]

Of course, in my major, from sophomore year on every class was me and the same six other guys, but that's a different story :-)Dead languages and dead linguists. ;-)

[link] [parent] [reply]